Bejda: We Must Keep Up the Tempo. Borsuk IFV Procurement By Year's End [INTERVIEW]

Jędrzej Graf: Minister, it has been nearly a year since you took responsibility for technical modernization at the Polish Ministry of Defence. How would you summarize this period? What was the most challenging, and what do you consider your achievements so far? 

Paweł Bejda, Secretary of State at the Polish Ministry of Defence: A year is enough time to make initial summaries, but let us remember that technical modernization is a long-term process requiring consistency, strategic thinking, and engagement from all parties involved in ensuring state security. It is a team effort involving not only the Ministry of National Defence and the government but also the Polish defence industry and other entities and institutions. The roles, responsibilities, and understanding of all players are key to achieving not only the right level of modernization but, above all, the security of our country.

The greatest challenge we continually face is the dynamic geopolitical situation, including conflicts in various parts of the world, such as the war in Ukraine. These have affected the availability of military equipment and the priorities of arms-producing nations. Amid the ongoing war near our borders, we must maintain the pace and level of armament acquisition to ensure that the Polish Armed Forces are equipped with the necessary combat means and military equipment.

The Ministry of National Defence is consistently modernizing the Polish Armed Forces, building the military and defensive potential of our country. International cooperation in the defence sector is being pursued on multiple fronts, aiming to urgently strengthen the defensive capabilities of the Polish Armed Forces in line with operational needs, tactical and technical requirements, as well as quantity and timeline expectations. This effort is accompanied by striving to negotiate the most favorable contract terms and maximize the involvement of Polish industrial potential. I have personally conducted dozens of meetings and made numerous trips, both domestic and international, to establish or restore partnerships and develop solutions beneficial to the Polish Armed Forces and the domestic industry.

What specific agreements have been signed?

We have already signed agreements worth over 120 billion PLN, with more in preparation. This demonstrates that technical modernization is not slowing down. We have concluded many challenging agreements, including contracts for Apache helicopters, additional Homar-K launchers, aerostats, JASSM missiles, and Kleszcz reconnaissance vehicles, as well as support vehicles for Langusta launchers and the IBCS system for the Wisła and Narew programs.

It is worth emphasizing that Polish defence businesses are also offering their products to international markets. WB Group has signed its first contract to export armaments from Poland to Korea, including Warmate systems and an agreement involving, among other things, the localization of rocket missiles for the Chunmoo system. We hope that these and other agreements will ensure a steady growth in arms exports from Poland.

Another notable achievement is Poland’s plan to reach a record 4.7% of GDP in defence spending by 2025, amounting to 187 billion PLN — approximately 28 billion PLN more than in 2024.

One of the biggest modernization challenges is ensuring adequate funding. Poland is currently under the EU’s excessive deficit procedure, and the Polish position advocating for the exclusion of defence expenditures has not yet been considered. How might this impact defence funding in the coming years? 

We must remember that security comes at a cost. That’s why we are working to adapt legal regulations and institutional frameworks to facilitate smooth budget execution and financing for the modernization of the Polish Armed Forces, also in cooperation with the European Union.

Regarding the financing of the Polish Armed Forces, I would like to point out that at the end of July this year, the Ministry of Defence submitted its 2025 budget proposal to the Ministry of Finance, along with a forecast of expenditures for 2026–2028.

The budget plan includes increased expenditures for the coming year compared to the current one. These additional funds will primarily be allocated to projects of fundamental importance to Poland’s security. It is important to highlight once again that the planned defence expenditures for 2025, including the Armed Forces Support Fund, amount to approximately 187 billion PLN, representing 4.7% of Poland’s GDP. This record-setting level places Poland among NATO’s leading nations in terms of defence spending.

This is a significant financial effort too.

Certainly, the level of expenditure in subsequent years may vary and will depend on GDP forecasts for those years. However, it should be stressed that the provisions of the Act on Homeland Defence, dated March 11, 2022, mandate that defense expenditures from the state budget must constitute at least 3% of GDP.

Nevertheless, Poland’s inclusion in the excessive deficit procedure will undoubtedly pose challenges for public finances as a whole. In this context, the activity and recommendations of the Minister of Finance will be crucial. As far as I am aware, consultations with the European Union on this matter are still ongoing.

How do you assess the operation of the Armed Forces Support Fund (FWSZ)? Recently, the Narew program was launched, and the British government announced loan guarantees worth £9 billion. This is noteworthy, as the contract being financed primarily involves PGZ as the main contractor. What are your comments on this, and how will the FWSZ be applied in future agreements and in the coming years?

Regarding the implementation of the Narew program, any form of support is valuable if it enables smooth execution and minimizes potential challenges the Ministry of National Defense may face in the future. It is crucial that agreements related to this layer of air and missile defense are carried out according to the established schedule. This program is also a prime example of how the involvement of the Ministry of State Assets has provided funding for the Polish defense industry, enabling it to undertake tasks connected with building an integrated, multi-layered air defence system.

Recently, contracts were finalized for the delivery of CAMM-ER missiles and missile launchers for the Narew short-range air defence systems. These contracts will be executed by the PGZ-NAREW Consortium, with the British MBDA UK Limited as the primary subcontractor. The significance of the Narew program cannot be overstated. It is one of the most critical and complex projects in the modernization of the Polish Armed Forces and is especially important in the current geopolitical circumstances. The finalization of the aforementioned contracts was made possible by establishing a financing system based on the Armed Forces Support Fund, with significant support from Bank Gospodarstwa Krajowego. This financing arrangement involved securing external funding (a loan) and credit guarantees provided by the British UKEF (United Kingdom Export Finance).

The Armed Forces Support Fund has been active for over two years, playing a key role in modernization efforts.

The Armed Forces Support Fund is one of the sources of financing for the technical modernization of the Polish Armed Forces. It requires aligning the debt-financing process with the contracting of military equipment purchases.

The creation of the Armed Forces Support Fund as a new and additional source of financing for the Armed Forces Development Programme aimed to significantly increase the financial capabilities of the Ministry of Defence and substantially enhance the operational capabilities of the Polish Armed Forces. Between 2022 and 2024, the Fund enabled the multiple contracting of new military equipment, which would not have been possible under the Ministry’s budget and the spending level of 3% of GDP. The provision of additional financing is particularly critical in light of the significant amount of military equipment transferred to Ukraine as part of support efforts. The Fund also allows the utilization of financial instruments offered by financial institutions in arms-exporting countries, including guarantees, insurance, and even grants.

What contracts, particularly for the Polish defense industry, can we expect as the year-end approaches? This period is always saturated with technical modernization deals.

The Armament Agency is working on hundreds of agreements currently under preparation. However, rushing such processes is not advisable; effectiveness is key. Each contract is preceded by thorough negotiations, and a responsible and thoughtful approach to multi-billion-zloty contracts cannot be criticized. Every zloty is invested carefully in the modernization process.

It is essential, as I have mentioned earlier, to create systemic solutions for acquiring and financing military equipment purchases that are tailored to the realities in which the Polish Armed Forces currently operate. The Ministry of Defence is also actively working to amend and adapt legal regulations regarding equipment procurement, financing, and expenditure methods, ensuring optimal budget execution and modernization planning.

We plan to finalize financially and strategically significant agreements by the end of this year, focusing on the supply of modern military equipment. Most of these contracts will involve the Polish defence industry and will ensure the operational readiness of equipment acquired from South Korea, as well as equipping newly formed military units. Updates on these agreements will be provided as they materialize.

Discussions are ongoing regarding the K2PL tank, its production in Poland. How do you assess the progress? And can you confirm that financing is secured for both the K2PL and earlier conditional contracts for equipment from Korea, such as the K9PL self-propelled howitzers?

The signing of the executive contract No. 2 for the delivery of K2PL tanks requires not only clarifying issues related to its financing. It should be emphasized that the second and subsequent not only will the executive contracts cover the acquisition of maintenance and repair capabilities but also the establishment of production potential in Poland and the inclusion of domestic contractors in the supply chains. The Ministry of State Assets plays a key role here, as it has the competence to build the necessary potential to ensure the effectiveness of the Polish defence industry.

I can confirm that we are currently in talks with the newly established (on 9th July) consortium of Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa S.A. and Hyundai Rotem Company, which submitted the appropriate negotiation forms to the contracting authority, the Armaments Agency, in early November. These documents are being thoroughly analyzed by the Contracting Authority’s Negotiation Team and are covered by the confidentiality of the ongoing proceedings, which prevents me from providing additional information at this stage. I can only mention that discussions are also ongoing regarding technology transfer for the production and servicing of K2 tanks. Additionally, as part of the localization of the K2 tanks, Polish entities have been identified to increase the share of Polish components in the final product. Our Korean partners are receptive and understanding of the Polish side’s arguments, so we expect a positive outcome from the negotiations.

I would also like to mention that, as part of this contract, we plan to acquire not only the K2PL tanks but also a variety of specialist equipment, such as ARV-class support vehicles, engineering reconnaissance vehicles, and assault bridges based on the same chassis as the K2 tanks.

Regarding securing the financing for the contracts, I inform you that such financing is being organized by the Bank Gospodarstwa Krajowego, and we do not foresee significant risks in this area.

What other opportunities for cooperation with Korea do you see, beyond the programs we are already implementing?

We perceive our cooperation with Korea in the defense sector as long-term, bringing benefits both in terms of modernizing the Polish Armed Forces and industrial development. In the military-technical domain, we are not only interested in continuing our successful collaboration but also in potentially expanding it into new technological areas. In this context, we are very pleased with the Korean side’s declaration of willingness to share their know-how and advanced technologies with Poland.

We are focused on maximizing the involvement of Polish defense industry entities in the processes of maintenance, service, and repair of various types of weaponry, as well as in the production of selected platforms. In this context, we repeatedly urge the Korean side to take effective actions to simplify procedures related to technology and knowledge transfer to Poland, as well as export financing. This should enable the offering of maintenance and repair services and production potential for partners in the region, such as Estonia, Romania, Norway, Finland, Lithuania, and Bulgaria, who are acquiring or are interested in acquiring Korean weapons.

We appreciate the contracts already signed for the Homar-K system, K2 tanks, FA-50 aircraft, and the Light Reconnaissance Vehicles based on the KLTV chassis, which are being developed with the involvement of Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa S.A.

We are currently analyzing and seeking a final solution regarding the acquisition of Heavy Infantry Fighting Vehicles, new Wheeled Armored Personnel Carriers, and submarines under the Orka program. Discussions are ongoing at various levels, involving multiple entities, including South Korea.

It is worth mentioning the talks related to establishing production capabilities in Poland for the combat systems of the Homar-K system. The first cooperation agreements have already been signed, which we are very pleased about.

Such extensive industrial cooperation is not just about purchases and adopting technology.

In addition to the technology transfer to Poland, I also draw attention to the transfer of technology from Poland to the Republic of Korea, which creates an opportunity for the development of joint products that could compete in the global market. In this context, it is worth mentioning again the contract signed by the WB Group for the delivery of Warmate systems to the South Korean Armed Forces.

Business relationships do not end with technology transfer. It is a process that also includes the training of our specialists, the development of research and development infrastructure, and joint work on new projects.

During the rollout of the first Polish F-35 fighter jet, you mentioned that Poland is considering the purchase of additional combat aircraft. Do you believe this is realistic, considering financial and training capabilities?

First and foremost, our purchasing needs are strictly dependent on the identified needs of the Polish Armed Forces, which precisely define the justification for having specific types of military equipment, including the number and the time frame in which they should be delivered and put into service. Thus, the General Staff of the Polish Armed Forces, together with the Air Force Inspector, conducts the relevant analyses, which will allow a decision to be made in this regard. We do not exclude the option of acquiring new combat aircraft.

You mentioned encouraging American companies to make greater investments in Poland, particularly in the defense sector. How do you assess the current cooperation with entities from the USA in terms of technology transfer, and where are the prospects for more? How might the new administration approach this?

Cooperation with the American side is very intensive. There is a strong willingness to collaborate from both American government agencies and industrial entities, as well as openness to our needs and requests, including in terms of technology transfer. I would like to emphasize that thanks to the openness of many American officials, the assistance of representatives from American companies, the excellent level of expertise from our negotiators at the Ministry of Defence and the Armament Agency, and the support we receive from the Office of Defense Cooperation at the US Embassy in Warsaw, we are able to conduct negotiations smoothly and successfully manage deliveries from the American side.

Regarding recent agreements and commitments made by the US towards Poland, including offset agreements related to the delivery of the IBCS system and Apache helicopters, in the coming years, Polish entities will acquire the skills and capabilities outlined in these contracts. It is at that time that we will be able to speak of real benefits for the national economy.

One of the largest orders that has not yet been finalized is the purchase of localized Homar-A launchers.

We are working on contracts for the Homar-A launchers, divided into phases. The first launchers, from new agreements, will be acquired in a similar model to the Korean ones, i.e., modules of launcher containers will be delivered to Poland and integrated with domestic components, systems, and eventually with the chassis. We aim for the next contract or contracts in the HOMAR-A program to involve the production of modules and rocket missiles in Poland.

During the recent visit to the US, the Armament Agency delegation raised the issue of the potential production of GMLRS rockets in Poland. I am optimistic that we will see the results of these discussions, but I reiterate – negotiations and talks with partners are a complex and tedious process that requires silence and peace.

And what significance could American defence investments have for us?

As for American defence industry investments in Poland, I believe this is a win-win situation for both sides. We gain know-how through access to the latest technology, shorten our supply chains, simplify logistics, and American entities, having a factory in the European Union and the associated lack of restrictions on the common European market, also gain access to skilled and innovative human resource. It is also an opportunity for American armed forces to service their equipment stationed in Europe without the need to send it back to CONUS. We continuously encourage defence sector companies, including American ones, to invest in Poland. I think that the arguments about the profitability of such investments will also appeal to the Trump administration, as well as his previous term in the White House.

American companies are undoubtedly one of our most important partners in the area of technical modernization, mainly due to the key defence technologies they possess, but also because of the generally good availability of the products they offer. From the point of view of the Ministry of Defence, since the Russian aggression in Ukraine, we have seen greater willingness to share solutions or to locate some tasks in Poland. Nevertheless, we remain focused on efforts to absorb as many solutions as possible. This openness suggests a commitment over the longer term, so I do not anticipate that a change in administration would have a significant impact in this regard.

One of the largest contracts concluded with companies from the USA is the Apache helicopters procurement. But what about multi-role helicopters like the Black Hawk? What are the conclusions from the use of helicopters during floods? 

The Armament Agency is conducting a public procurement procedure for the delivery of Multi-Role Support Helicopters. Our goal is to acquire helicopters that meet the military’s requirements while maintaining the best possible financial conditions for the State Treasury.

The flood has once again confirmed that rotary-wing aviation plays a significant role in crisis situations and is very much needed. Military helicopter crews evacuated hundreds of people from flooded areas. They also carried out tasks related to reinforcing flood barriers, delivering food and water, and monitoring the condition of rivers and water reservoirs.  

However, we must also remember that the primary purpose of military helicopters is not to address the effects of natural disasters.

And are heavy Chinook helicopters planned?

I would like to remind you of one of Prime Minister Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz’s statements, that the heavy transport helicopters CH-47F Chinook are one of the platforms that are under consideration for the air-mobile units. However, we cannot make a hasty decision – the purchase must be preceded by operational analyses, which are conditioned by many external and internal factors. This also applies to other types of aircraft.

How is the Abrams tank and support vehicle acquisition program progressing? What conclusions can be drawn, and will the Abrams be modernized, for example, with systems to protect against drones?

In 2024, we completed the delivery of M1A1 Abrams tanks, and in the coming months, we will begin receiving the M1A2 SEPv3 variant tanks. The situation is similar for the support vehicles. Most of the M1A1-contracted vehicles are already in Poland. It’s worth mentioning that just before the end of 2023, we finalized an order for Polish command Rosomaks for M1A2 tank units. Additionally, we are at an advanced stage of acquiring, with the approval of the U.S. Congress, M1150 ABV engineering tanks.

The modernization of the Abrams tanks is currently being analyzed. We want not only these tanks but also other armored vehicles in the Polish Armed Forces to meet the requirements of not only the contemporary but also the future battlefield.

For the entire Land Forces, the key project is the Borsuk infantry fighting vehicle program, but it encountered technical problems during testing. What are your views on its prospects?

For the Land Forces, this is a very important project. Acquiring military equipment is not only about the military’s desire but also the available production capabilities. As with any new solution, issues arise, which is normal for projects of this kind.  

Undoubtedly, the operational needs of the Polish Armed Forces require a radical increase in competencies and production capabilities on the part of the domestic defense industry.

Regarding the planned contracts for infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs), I can confirm that by the end of the year, the first executive contract for the BORSUK IFV is planned to be concluded.

The Polish industry needs to expand its production capacities, both in terms of ammunition supply and equipment. Recently, work has started on new regulations. How do you assess this?

Once again, I would like to remind you that the Government of the Republic of Poland is working on new systemic solutions, both in terms of legislation and building structures and capabilities that will enable the implementation of this task.

Increasing the production capacity of the Polish industry is a crucial element in strengthening national defence. In the context of 155mm ammunition, I would like to point out the bill currently under consideration by the Ministry of State Assets in cooperation with the Ministry of National Defence. This bill aims to allocate financial resources from the Ministry of National Defence (MON) and the Government Strategic Reserves Agency to the Capital Investment Fund to recapitalize companies and increase and establish new production capacities in PGZ companies. I firmly believe that thanks to these efforts, we will quickly begin meeting domestic needs in the area of ammunition, and subsequently, we will be able to offer our products to foreign partners. Without describing each program individually, I want to emphasize that nearly every capability development project in the land domain involves domestic production, adapted to the schedule for introducing specific equipment into the Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland.

And how do you assess the cooperation between the Ministry of National Defense (MON) and PGZ? Is the current solution, in which oversight of PGZ is handled by the Ministry of State Assets (MAP), optimal?

Polska Grupa Zbrojeniowa (PGZ) is the largest domestic supplier of military equipment. Based on the number of contracts concluded with PGZ and those being executed, proper cooperation is essential because our common goal is the good of the homeland. However, you are right to ask: Is this cooperation optimal? Already today, changes can be seen in the cooperation between the Ministry of State Assets, which oversees PGZ, and the Ministry of National Defence (MON). Government-level actions should lead to increased production capabilities for the Armed Forces in the future. We are working on a systemic solution that would strengthen production processes and improve the contracting of military equipment. 

Optimal solutions are always associated with specific assumptions and criteria. Thus, what is optimal under certain conditions may not be optimal in a changed or changing environment. The division I lead in the MON has a clear task: to use every opportunity to support and build Polish industrial production potential. 

PGZ is currently looking for a successor to the Rosomak and heavy IFV through international cooperation. How are these programs progressing?

Developing and testing new military equipment requires investment, determination, and time. An example of this can be seen in many similar programs carried out by our allies for their own armed forces, as well as joint projects carried out by NATO member states. The current operational needs of the Polish Armed Forces, in light of the growing threat to the security of our country, require taking the fastest possible actions to acquire new combat vehicles.

In this context, the Armament Agency is conducting negotiations to conclude executive contracts for both mentioned types of vehicles. As part of the negotiations, in order to expedite task implementation, the possibility of providing technological support to the domestic industry through the use of verified technical solutions from foreign partners, including in the area of chassis, should be presented. We assume that such cooperation will enable the supply of equipment to the Land Forces with the expected tactical and technical parameters within the planned timeframes. The contract signing date depends on the results of ongoing talks between the Polish contractor and foreign entities. We are overseeing these discussions, and I am confident that we will jointly develop the most advantageous solution, both for the needs of the Armed Forces and for industrial cooperation.

Minister Kosiniak-Kamysz speaks about the creation of the Unmanned Systems Forces, and experimental units are being developed at the General Staff. We can see that the proliferation of unmanned systems is progressing very quickly. Are we ready to begin such mass acquisitions for the Polish Army as well?

Such orders are already underway. I would like to remind you that the Polish Army, thanks to targeted orders from the Armaments Agency, now has an increasing and expanding fleet of drones, primarily domestically produced by WB Electronics, as well as Turkish Bayraktars and American drones of various classes.

Orders for drones are being regularly carried out, as evidenced by contracts for FlyEye and Warmate systems. This also confirms the readiness of both the drone manufacturer and the purchaser to meet the challenge of mass acquisitions, including for the anticipated establishment of the Unmanned Systems Forces.

And what about counter-UAS capability? It is needed on various levels, from soldiers and subunits to larger systems.

The need to acquire Counter-UAS systems was noticed some time ago. I will even say that it is one of our priorities. Currently, the Armaments Agency is completing the Hardware Requirements Definition Phase for the Counter-UAS System, which is a component of the Pilica+ systems. The system is expected to be able to operate independently, in addition to functioning within the Pilica+ system. At the same time, further acquisition of these systems or their components is expected to meet the needs of the Armed Forces at various levels. I would not like to disclose further details on this matter yet.

What is the status of the largest ongoing program to modernize the Navy, regarding the Orka submarine? Is it planned to be implemented under an intergovernmental agreement?

Currently, in cooperation with several units and institutions of the Ministry of National Defence, we are working to finalize the process of defining Requirements for the new type Orka submarine. This process will establish the tactical-technical parameters and the method of acquiring the submarine. 

The submarines in the Orka programme will be acquired along with a specific inventory of weapons, for which the export is generally approved by the government of the country of origin of the producer. Additionally, it should be noted that if innovative technical solutions, owned by the producer country, are applied to a specific type of platform, obtaining approval for these solutions is also necessary.

Poland has purchased FA-50PL aircraft, and discussions are ongoing regarding their integration with American armament. What is the status of this? And looking at the bigger picture, do you see the need and possibility for greater standardization of ammunition, so that, for example, the Homar-A launchers could fire missiles for the Homar-K launchers and vice versa? Can we achieve this, for example, by discussing it within NATO?

Standardization is possible but requires certification actions. Talks are still ongoing with rocket munitions manufacturers. It should be noted that these are the interests of different countries, and reaching an agreement acceptable to all parties is very difficult. However, we are working on it, as evidenced by my discussions during visits to the Republic of Korea and the United States, as well as recent talks between representatives of the Armaments Agency and the U.S. administration regarding the potential production of GMLRS missiles. We are conducting talks with key international players in this field, and I believe that in the near future I will be able to provide more details on this matter.

Thank you for this conversation.